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That's just hot.

It's still FWD.

Encountered a new Scirocco for the first time yesterday. The one I saw was white.

The back is inoffensive – though the rear vision is poor through that tiny window, but they look really heavy and clumsy viewed from the side. Not good.


This is one of the few cars I know of that actually looks worse in the metal than in pics

and still has a 2L engine...albiet from the S3. regardless, totally hawt. the rear still bugs me though...

AWD would be an added extravagance for this car. Not to mention added weight. It's completely unnecessary.

A friend of mine recently took delivery of a brand new, fully loaded model. It's absolutely gorgeous, and I'm hoping she lets me drive it soon.

Then against all laws of the People's Car, it should somehow be RWD.

If it was 4wd and had 6 cylinders, I might turn a blind eye to its chubby looks and enjoy the ride

I'm not against the idea of a 265 HP FWD car if it's well sorted. Could be considered a Focus RS competitor, though it probably won't be quite as extreme.

Focus RS is the exception to the rule from my point of view

i soooo wish that was rwd :(

That does look good.

she bought the scirocco r (already out?) or the s3?

Eh, well I suppose the R is top spec now, so I mean the 2.0TFSI.

It has a DSG, I figured you'd be sucking this car's dick hardcore.

DSG + FWD would be the equivalent of sucking a dick, yes. A hairy one.

So DSG + AWD equals sucking a clean shaven dick then?

I hope that neoprene isn't moldy yet.

Dude, if you're all "manual or nothing" that makes you a true car enthusiast - just ask any ricer

This is hurting my head...what's better? Automatic only, left wheel drive, naturally aspirated 2-stroke V5 right?

Atleast its not fat and useless.


Damn right. Thats why drag racers are pussies with their autoboxes.

This guy's so intune with his machine he doesnt need a shift knob

Well duh. Thats what a real street warrior does.

Haha, actually i love manuals. Both my vehicles are 4-speeds - one has 3 pedals tho

I really don't get these stupid arguments against FWD. Anyone who can truly say that a FWD car IS NOT FUN, I expect them to have driven ALL OF THESE cars: Ford Focus ST, Mini Cooper S (preferably JCW), Golf GTI, or now Scirocco, Honda Civic Type-R, Renault Megane F1, Seat Leon Cupra. There are a few others aswell, but these are what I'm going with. If you have driven all of these cars , properly, and still maintain that "FWD is shit, FWD is boring...bla bla bla", I will rest my case. But no one can say (the way it is so often done on DS) that all FWD cars are boring or shit or whatever, without having driven these cars.
A well sorted FWD car is just as much fun as a cool RWD car, you just need to drive them accordingly.

There's nothing wrong with a good FWD car. Most people insult FWD because OMFOMGOMG IT CAN'T TOKYO DRIFT. Give me a break here...

Noone's saying FWD are not fun... But being driven 4 FWD cars with spirit is not nearly as fun as driving RWD cars. Its just the turning which sucks, you get very little fun out of it. But on the other hand, I remember going sideways on an empty lot or turning in friends cars that are RWD, its a totally different feeling. Though I still enjoy my gti, its mostly because of the sound of the turbo, or the kick it has. On the other hand, if it was a RWD, it would give me a similar feeling that of a roller coaster :) (The excitement!).

The generalization is also a bit overdue.... I mean, driving is fun in general, but RWD is more fun then RWD. Just my $.02


EDIT****. Also what is so special about the Focus RS ? (No sarcasm intended, its just i am a bit curious, i am about to visit Europe in a few weeks)

Well Ozi, the MkIV GTI is a pretty good car, but its' hardly the pinnacle of FWD engineering, keep that in mind as well.

+1



I actually think the MkIV is pretty boring to drive...but I say that a lot, so I'll just shut up.

Eliminated torque steer - actually handles, lots of power for a FWD factory, looks radical

I see... So, the conclusion is that a well engineered FWD gets a go against a RWD ? How about a moderately engineered FWD vs a moderately engineered RWD ? I still think RWD wins in terms of handling, fun etc...

I would say that opinion depends on what else you've driven as well as how hard you've driven a GTI...I would say that my car comes to me more and more the more aggressively I drive it, up until the point where the wheels are coming off and then it starts to fall away from me. But it laps up 9/10ths or 9.5/10ths track driving, with the exception of the brakes which give up the ghost in 3-4 hot laps (at least on Buttonwillow, which is a tough track on brakes). At the very least I can say, if I ever start to feel a little bored with my car, a good hard drive on a track or in the mountains makes me love it all over again.

best looking hatch imo.

FWD isn't shit, it's just not the best. That said, I am hoping to pick up a rwd car this week...

EDIT: Seller was a douche, later this summer...

I'm not saying fwd isn't good – i'm just saying that I would prefer 4wd on a high-powered Scirocco for me, in Switzerland, in winter.

My fwd Peugeot 106GTI struggles to get up some hills – even on good winter tyres – but using the handbrake to get it round tight turns on snow is fun. I don't even try to use my front-engined rwd cars on snow – my rear-engined rwd car has enough traction though.

I am by no means saying that FWD is better than AWD or RWD. Depending on your application (such as driving on/in snow/ice), a certain layout may be better. I for one believe that from a safety and driveability point of view, AWD is far superior to either FWD or RWD, in pretty much most conditions. Older AWD cars behaved very much like FWD cars, in terms of steering input and how to drive them, and nowadays manufacturers are tending to put in rear biased torque distribution, to make it more RWD-esque.
What I meant with my previous post is that people (especially our RWD fanboys here on DS) are so quick to just flat out dismiss FWD cars, based on nothing but them being FWD. We just put a Scirocco 2.0T around Kyalami this morning, and guess what, it did a faster lap time, by almost 2 seconds, than a C63 AMG Estate. It did the same time as a CLS 63 AMG.
I know these cars are in no way comparable, but this just goes to show that a FWD car can really put out.
And for those people that are going to tell me you can play better with a RWD drive car (drifting), how many people are actually going to drift their car on a daily basis. Also, that will rape your tyres.
So there, FWD can be just as awesome as RWD in the right application.
Just my 2c

As some of you may remember, I had a Mazdaspeed3 and I thought FWD was really good because of increased handling around corners. Basically, I loved FWD in the MS3. Others vary.

Idk. Just pitching in I guess.

Well, technically your MS3 would have had worse handling around a corner than the equivalent (if there is such a car) RWD car. The car now has to deal with power delivery and steering...
Also, the MS3 was known to be one of the FWD cars that sufffered severely at the hands of its own power. There was just too much torque going through the front wheels.
I personally still like the MS3 and wouldn't mind one of my own, because I think it is a hugely entertaining car.

If the car is set up to handle the power then that isn't really true.

The Mazdaspeed3 was completely overrated by the American press. It was fast for the money, but it had WAAY too much power for its own good. Also I'm noticing here that it tends to be the North American members on DS that do most of the "FWD FTL MAN!"...could it be that you guys hardly get any FWD cars worth talking about? I mean you've got the GTI and Minis, but no recent Type-Rs, no Scirocco, no fast Fords since the Focus SVT, no Frenchies, and no Italians...which really leaves a bunch of overweight Japanese midsizers, and boring compacts.

I dont think anyone was talking about RWD being more fun from a drifting aspect, but more in the sense that when you reach the edge it's more "fun" (read: controllable) than actually scary. You find the edge in a FWD car (especially one that's hopped on power) and it's not so much "fun", it's more like "what's the softest thing to hit after the apex?"

I doubt most people in this thread were hating on FWD for its lap times either, it's more feel for the car.

Besides ice/snow - those were your two points, right OH?

it's just disappointing exiting a corner under power: come... on... don't... point... that... way...

It's not so much a problem of car setup as it is an inherent issue with FWD. Of course a better set up car would handle it all better, but there is still the issue of the wheels doing the power delivery and the steering.
Your tyres can only do so much, in terms of delivering power and/or steering the car. Add too much of both and you get horrible, washing understeer. This is what plagues a lot of powerful FWD cars. What I'm saying though is, drive the car properly and you'll get a fuckload of joy from a FWD car.

Power oversteer- simply rotating the car with the throttle- is the joy of RWD. Whether you're drifting or moving at perfectly sane speed with all four tires tracking normally, it makes the twisties just so much easier.

I don't think rwd makes cornering easier – and if you are really hanging the tail out, you are not getting round as quickly as possible.

If you are experienced, rwd is more entertaining than a typical understeering fwd car. But there are fwd cars in which you can induce oversteer by lifting off in the entrance to corners – Peugeot's 205 was one, my 106 also exhibits this trait to some extent – but I'm not brave/foolish enough to investigate it much on the public road. Rwd oversteer is far simpler to provoke and control – once you know how. But a rwd novice can easily be caught out – more than once an ex hot hatch driver has appeared on a Lotus forum as a new owner only to smash his car within days.

A mid-engined rwd car is not the best choice to go to from fwd, but front-engined rwd car like a Mazda MX5/Miata or most Beemers is really straightforward and forgiving if you take it easy at first.

You can ruin the balance of any car by adding too much power, we all know you can only put so much power through the front wheels but that doesn't mean that a 200hp fwd car will handle worse than a 200hp rear wheel drive car.

That's exactly the thing though, it will. With all other things being equal (if that's even possible), suspension, weight, weight distribution, wheelbase, etc., etc. the FWD car will not handle as well as the RWD, for the simple fact that the front wheels have to deal with the power delivery and the steering, whereas in a RWD car the front wheels deal only with steering and the shove comes from the rear wheels.

Im not going to try and explain anymore.

Exactly my point.

So AWD > * ?

So AWD > * ?

This is, I think, somewhat the point of the thread(or what it's come to at least). There is no FWD > AWD ><RWD ><NWD...whatever.
All i said in my original rant is people must stop bashing cars for the simple fact that they are FWD.