If you want a rear-drive sedan, you have two options. Big and affordable (G8, Charger, Genesis), or small but luxurious (3-Series, C-Class, etc). Either way, you're going to spend north of US$30,000 new.

So I was thinking, why not start with the new Camaro V6 (300 hp, $22,995), and make a compact (E90 3-Series-sized) four-door non-luxury sport sedan that also costs $23,000 or so? Obviously don't call it a Camaro.

And don't tell me that "a four-door Camaro is a Pontiac G8." The V6 G8 has a cheaper engine than the Camaro V6 (it doesn't have direct injection), and yet still costs $4,500 more. There clearly are significant differences besides the number of doors. Plus, the G8 is simply too big for a lot of urban people's tastes.

Am I the only person here who would go ga-ga over such a car? It seems to me that now is the right time for such a car, with the recession pushing buyers away from luxury brands. People who used to stretch their budget for a 3-Series or a G35 might be all over such a car. I know I would.

I can see the market for such a car, but i just dont know if GM could pull it off. I know they have had a few smash hits lately, but still. Plus, what kind of options list would this thing have? 4 well appointed seats, electric windows for all, keyless entry, and maybe satellite radio, i could see the price tag sneaking up around 30k.

Im still waitin on the first company to exploit modular technology. It would greatly reduce the overall cost of vehicles that would be sold, and really stretch out the option list so that you can get precisely what you want instead of packages. Want manual cloth seats, and nav? no problem. Want rain sensing windshield wipers, but crank windows? Of course. Also, the ability to pick the body ( modular lets you choose whether you want a coupe, 4-door, truck, wagon, etc) and suspension and engine independently as well just adds the icing to the cake.

In all fairness, I'll offer the same challenge to Hyundai with the Genesis coupe 2.0T. Make a compact sports sedan starting at $23,000. If they can do it with a two-door, they can do it with a four-door.

The Camaro is a big car. It's a big platform. It'd be CTS-sized probably if they did it. But someone should definitely do it...

...I once thought VW could pull it off with the Jetta. Obviously they never will, but that would be basically exactly what you're talking about.

I think what Mitlov is talking about is a car that already exists, just not in the US. The BMW 118i. Here, the base model costs about the same as an Accord, has RWD, and a fuel-sipping 1.8 4 banger. Great car really, but the hatchback style is off-putting for some, the limited rear space for others, and the fact that the base model has NO options.

Also, if the G8 were cheaper there, I think it's a great substitute for a 3-series. Get a test drive if you can Mitlov.

I'd refer to the G8 as a "large sedan," not even midsize, not to mention compact. While some take a more-is-better approach to roominess in a car, I actually want a smaller car. There's a lot of places in Oregon (i.e., the entire Eugene-to-Portland corridor) where the G8 physically would not fit in many parking spaces. I just don't want a car that big. (Plus, the lack of a manual is really off-putting to me).

Anyway, I looked up the Camaro's stats. The wheelbase is only two inches shorter than the G8, five inches longer than a Mustang, and six inches longer than the 3-Series. It's bigger than I thought it was.

And Moe, yes, a 1-Series 5-door with a four-banger would do the trick, though in my ideal world, it'd be a sedan, not a hatch. I just want RWD, four doors, a compact size, and a sub-$30k price tag. There's no reason such a car couldn't exist, especially with the economy driving people away from compact luxury sport sedans.

That's not all that's wrong with it. It has a shockingly appalling interior and the automatic transmission is probably one of the worst things I've ever used. It's closer in size to a 5- or maybe 7-Series than a 3-Series. On the bright side, you could fit like five or six bodies in the trunk and a bunch of really huge fat-asses in the cabin.

Buy a used 328

There's always that. But BMWs depreciate slowly, so even used prices are high, and they have very high maintenance costs outside of warranty. It would be nice if Hyundai offered a compact sport sedan based on the Genesis 2.0T that started at $24,000. Even new, it's probably a cheaper proposition overall than the used BMW, provided you're not going to sell it with a couple years (and take a depreciation hit).

Besides, once my proposed car had been around for a few years, so you could pick up the Hyundai sport sedan used, which would be an insanely good value.

Id kill to see a modern interpretation of the 70's Escorts. Look at that cult following. Such a car would change touring car racing (and grassroots motorsports in general), and of course the rally community. Then we could be done with this AWD boredom on tarmac stages.

What about the FG Falcon? The XR6 Turbo's like 363hp/393tq

Perhaps a bit bulky but a step in the right direction?



Besides that, pretty much every domestic sedan in the last 10 years is ugly as sin.

Outside US companies - i want the Coup 60 to exist. I will have one, even if that means i have to steal their concept.

Impreza WRX? Sure it's not RWD, and it's all kinds of ugly, but it's got AWD, and the '09 model is supposed to be pretty damned good.

If no one builds the sort of car I'm talking about--and it seems no one will--the 2009+ WRX is a very, very likely option for a next vehicle.

But "all kinds of ugly" is right. The five-door is better than the dreadful sedan, but neither are lookers.

Honestly, if I were you Mitlov, I'd be looking towards the Cobalt SS. It's FWD, but extremely well-executed FWD. I like the chunky, squarish looks of the sedan as well.

Missed this post. Why not an Infiniti? Don't they depreciate like stones in the US? Sounds like a great used buy to me.

I would like to get away from FWD. Not for objective reasons--the Cobalt SS is faster than many $30k RWD cars--but just for the subjective feel of RWD at an 8/10ths pace. Maybe it's all in my head, but the 325i and IS250 just felt very very different than, say, the MkV GTI, even though I wasn't at the limits of traction where oversteer-versus-understeer comes into play.

If I stayed with FWD, I'd sacrifice some of the Cobalt SS's speed for some extra refinement. Which means I'd be looking at a Jetta GLI or equivalent, which for me would feel like a lateral transfer instead of a trade-up. I'd rather save a ton of money and just do some suspension work on my current car than buy a new (or nearly-new GLI).



My brain absolutely agrees with you. It gives me a sporty chassis, tons of performance, a 6MT, four doors, enough room for a family, good reliability, respectable refinement with the second-gen, and, as you note, excellent used prices.

I haven't had an opportunity to take a G35 for a spin (I'll try to do that next time I'm in Portland), but the bizarre thing about the G35 for me is, even though it's the perfect (used) car for what I'm looking for, I just can't form any sort of emotional connection. Something about it just leaves me cold. I'm hoping a test-drive would start some spark with that car that I don't have already.

I drove the previous G35 coupe, and the new 328 coupe back-to-back, and I could feel that the BMW was better in most departments (though not by much). The G, just seemed to have so much more character though...I think a large part of that was it's more distinctive styling, and that engine noise...probably the best noise I've heard on something that isn't a supercar. End result? I knew the BMW was probably a better car, but I wanted the Infiniti.

No, GM should not make a 3-series type of car... they should make a car that puts the civic to shame. That would get their ball rolling...

I've been saying this for years now: I don't understand why GM isn't reorganizing their brand, shutting down old, shitty models and channeling their resources into making a every-day, efficient, high-quality civic beater.

Easy.

Recipe:

1 part Chevy Volt body/chassis

1 part 2.2 L engine from Cobalt

1 part competitive pricing.

Add more hybrid technology and 2.0L turbocharged motors to taste.

Viola!! Instant civic fighter.

(if fighting 2 door civics, cut recipe in half and add funky colors to interior/exterior options list.)

Well the Cruze is on its way, and it at least looks the part, if nothing else.

Looking the part has never been Civic's game. People didn't use to buy the Civic because it was a statement of style... now Honda has been able to inject style into the line since its customer base is rock solid... but owning a civic wasn't ever particularly stylish.

Well I mentioned it looked good, because it at least has that going for it. No one's driven the Cruze yet, so I couldn't say whether it's actually good or not. Given GM's recent products, I'd say it'll get very, very close to matching the Civic.

Have Mitlov's prayers been answered?

Sign me the fuck up. So long as they offer a manual transmission in it.