http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home



wow.

I see Chrysler's motivation in joining up with a manufacturer who doesn't absolutely suck right now. But what would GM get out of this? Nothing in Chrysler's line-up fills a hole in GM's line-up, and the last thing GM needs is MORE factories to close and workers to lay off.

What about the fact that a percentage of GM-Chrysler would be privately held as a result of the merger? I'm guessing when they merge, it's not all going to be public, seeing as Chrysler is completely owned by Cerebrus.

GM! Don't do it! Chrysler is the lowest of the low, the shittiest of the shit! OH NOES!

^ You know, I was reading a road test of the Journey in a European magazine, and they said it was good. Not great, or amazing, but good. The dynamics were a bit sloppy for their taste, and the diesel a bit unrefined, but they generally liked it. They even said it was, wait for it...decently built...I think it's a clear indication that Chrysler's definitely on the up in terms of product.

Interesting. The reviews I've read have been pretty lackluster, including this C&D shootout where it came in dead last:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/compar...comparison_test

Yeah, it's problem isn't that it's a bad car, but that it's a pretty tough segment. A friend and I were talking about the best all-round car that Dodge makes, and it could be the Journey. It's a good, honest car. It does what it's supposed to, it's well-built, and decent value-for-money.

Here's Autocar's road test.

EDIT: It's a pretty handsome crossover too, IMO. It's a damn sight better than the horrendous Mureno, or the bulbous Pilot/MRV.

I wonder how much the Europe model varies from the North American model. You've got a different engine, a manual transmission, and what looks to be an interior with better fit-and-finish. I'll lay money the suspension is different, too.

Call me dropped as a child, but I think the new Murano looks pretty nice.

Yeah I'd agree, the Journey is pretty high on the list for the best car that Chrysler group makes. I mean I think the Viper deserves that honor, but it's not mainstream. The Challenger also is quite good overall.

Oh and frankly, the Murano looks really great in person. One of the best crossovers there is.

Yeah, I wasn't counting the Viper, since it's a niche vehicle.

I've yet to see the new Murano, but the previous gen was honestly closer to beautiful than most SUVs even glimpse at. The new one looks like its retarded cousin from the pics. I honestly think most crossovers look pretty good these days. A notable exception would be the Pilot/MR-V.

GM merging with Chrysler would be like handing a cake to a fat man on diet.

What GM gets is not dying, since their stock has dropped over 30% recently

Rumor is, that if GM doesn't do this, they're done before end of '09. If they do, they stand a chance. Dodge is hemorrhaging cash, but there's a possibility, Cerebrus has enough to keep them both afloat a little while. Like I said earlier, a large percentage of the monster that would be formed, would go private (it would be privately owned by Cerebrus). That's kind of the long-shot theory. The other theory is that the US government would just see the company as "too big to fail" if they merged, and would intervene if they had to close shop.

GM might recover with gas going below $3 a gallon now....

I don't understand why people are blaming GM's woes on gas prices. Fuel-economy-wise, the Astra's barely behind the Civic and Corolla, and ahead of cars like the Mazda3 and Sentra, IIRC. And far, far ahead of the Lancer and Rabbit/Jetta. The Malibu is slightly better on gas than either the Camry or the Accord, I think (especially in i4 6AT form). The Acadia/Outlook is perfectly competitive with the Odyssey and Sienna. The CTS 3.6 DI gets the same fuel economy as a 335i or C350. Even the H3 isn't any worse than a Toyota FJ Cruiser.

Nevermind that they're actually selling more Cobalt's than they can make...

Yes I see what you're saying, but the profit margins on those vehicles are small. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's gas could be had for around a dollar. People did not care about gas mileage when purchasing a vehicle, tahoe's and suburbans sold like hot cakes. Those suvs had a great profit margin on them, probably enough to account for several cars.

If gas went to $1.50 a gallon (which wont happen until gasoline is not the motor fuel of choice or the world economy goes ) people would not consider mpg when buying a car and thus go for the large comfortable suvs with high profit margin..

I think it might also be a perception thing.

If someone asked me to name a company with cars that got great gas millage, I would probably say something like "Toyota or Honda"...which I guess is pretty ignorant given that Chevy seems to have quietly put it self in a position to challenge those preconceptions.

Fuck...with the Astra, Malibu, Solstice Coupe, Cobalt replacement and Focus all poised to kick ass, my next car could be American...something I would never even have though possible a few years ago.

I don't think that's the case really. I keep reading how the Cobalt/G5 is flying out the door at dealerships. If perceptions had been the problem, those probably wouldn't have been selling as quickly.

Relationship?

^That proves absolutely nothing. I could show you an increasing trend of my foot size over time and then you'd believe it's related to the increase in gas prices?

Maybe....

No, I am just pointing out a trend. While the initial jump in gasoline cost wooed consumers away from big profit SUVs GM was ok, but they have been going downhill along with many other things in this recession...

GM wants Cerebrus deal done soon.

Wow...appears the world is ending.

Haha...didn't see that coming.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=134969



It's a tough pill to swallow, but the fact of the matter is that if GM and Chrysler merge they really need to trim the fat and kill the model overlap...so that's what would happen here. Chrysler will probably become half the size it is now under GM, and GM will probably shrink too.

Wow, this is big. I'll be sad to see the Loser go...

Guess what... it isn't happening. The treasury denied the loan. GM is officially in the shithouse.

Analyst Rod Lache of the Deutsche Bank (biggest german bank) has set the target for the stock value of GM to zero. Yes, zero, null, nada, niente! According to him GM can only survive the December if the american government supports the company with fresh money. And even in this case there will be nothing left for the share owners.

Source: German Spiegel magazine

Heavy stuff!

GM and Ford are both fucked unless the gov't comes in rescue them... but they have to be careful and not go bankrupt...

Also, GM Chrysler talks are off. I've heard rumors that negotiations have been reopened with Nissan, and perhaps that Hyundai is interested? Honestly, I hate to see Chrysler go, but I can't help but think they're America's Rover. They have those rare moments when they come out with something truly praiseworthy, but most of it is all just b/s.

I just hope they get certain models off (the Viper just has to survive... Hennessy, maybe?).

Ford will be fine as long as they stay on course with their turnaround.

I wouldn't worry about the Viper or Jeep. They're kind of like LR and Mini to Rover...they're strong enough brands that someone will pick them up.

Yeah the Viper brand is currently up for sale and will live on. I dunno about Jeep but I'm sure they won't let that brand die.

As for the bailout, Obama really seems to be pushing for aid to the US automakers. I'm a fan of letting Chrysler sputter and die (they're too far gone to really save at this point) and saving Ford and GM, who have much more promise.

QFT.