moethepaki
Sep 15 2008, 07:25 AM
The official teasers are here...it's only a matter of time now folks.


QUOTE
It's not like Porsche has done a very good job keeping the Panamera, its upcoming four-door sports sedan coupe, a secret. We've seen more spy shots of the Panamera undergoing testing than pics of Britney doing something unseemly in public, and that's a lot. But rather than just show us the final production form of the Panamera, the name of which is now officially followed by "Gran Turismo", Porsche has decided to do a full blown marketing roll out using the just launched Panamera Online Magazine as the medium through which we'll see the production Panamera bit by bit. The first issue is out and contains a few not-very-revealing sketches of the car as well as an image that will be used in upcoming advertisements in which the Panamera peeks its nose out of a garage. Unfortunately, the front end of the car looks pretty much like every other Porsche. Nevertheless, the roll out has begun and sooner rather than later we'll be able to pass judgment on Porsche's first four-door passenger car. Porsche says the Panamera's official debut is scheduled for next spring (probably the Geneva Motor Show in March), with sales to commence in late summer or early fall of 2009.
Source:
Autoblog
nismo
Sep 15 2008, 07:52 AM
The second picture makes me think Corvette C6. O_o
Bjorn
Sep 15 2008, 08:09 AM
That is a fucking sexy teaser. I have high hopes.
Synesthesia
Sep 15 2008, 08:53 AM
QUOTE(Bjorn @ Sep 15 2008, 12:09 PM)

That is a fucking sexy teaser. I have high hopes.
Haha yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.
moethepaki
Sep 15 2008, 09:08 AM
Beats the shit out of the disguised mules doesn't it?
Razor
Sep 15 2008, 09:43 AM
Moe, I don't blame you ONE BIT for changing your avatar again. They said it would resemble the 911... I think it actually might... in a good way. Wow.
moethepaki
Sep 15 2008, 09:58 AM
Yeah, that and I couldn't have a VAG product as an avatar could I?

EDIT: Btw, that family portrait just made me realize...the Cayman's front-end looks like a 911 with herpes.
Mitlov
Sep 15 2008, 10:11 AM
Better than I feared, but I'm not saying much. It's hard to get a feel for a car based just off of the nose.
Between the Panamera and the Rapide, I still suspect that the Rapide will be by far the better-looking one. But in general, I'm not as into Porsches as many people on this forum are.
clarkma5
Sep 15 2008, 10:15 AM
It's a very pretty nose. Does it look a lot like a 911? Yeah, but considering they've spent the last 15 years having such a strong commonality visually between their model lines, it's really hard to have a porsche look like a porsche without it looking like a 911. I don't begrudge them that at all.
What will make or break this car stylistically will be the C-pillar and trunk area. I suspect the camo'd cars really hid the beauty of that region but we won't know for sure until they release it.
b0mb3r
Sep 15 2008, 10:19 AM
looks interesting so far...
Dr. Strangelove
Sep 15 2008, 04:23 PM
QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Sep 15 2008, 11:15 AM)

It's a very pretty nose. Does it look a lot like a 911? Yeah, but considering they've spent the last 15 years having such a strong commonality visually between their model lines, it's really hard to have a porsche look like a porsche without it looking like a 911. I don't begrudge them that at all.
What will make or break this car stylistically will be the C-pillar and trunk area. I suspect the camo'd cars really hid the beauty of that region but we won't know for sure until they release it.
I agree completely. The lines on the mules made me
Bjorn
Sep 16 2008, 12:22 AM
^But they got people talking, which I suspect was the intent. Not that a Porsche Saloon isn't enough for that already...but a little extra hype isn't often bad.
tune
Sep 16 2008, 04:48 AM
I'm surprised everyone is expecting it to be so nice, I think it's going to look so hideously awkward.
Bjorn
Sep 16 2008, 06:29 AM
Why? Porsche makes good looking cars. Why would they make something which is awkward looking?
I'm sure that in addition to Porsche's designers there have been lots and lots of focus groups approving or disproving of every step of the design process.
Mitlov
Sep 16 2008, 06:54 AM
QUOTE(Bjorn @ Sep 16 2008, 07:29 AM)

Why? Porsche makes good looking cars. Why would they make something which is awkward looking?
I'm sure that in addition to Porsche's designers there have been lots and lots of focus groups approving or disproving of every step of the design process.
Is that how the Cayenne came to be?
Porsche, like any other company, is perfectly capable of botching a styling job. And the Panamera test mules we've seen have had some pretty awkward proportions.
Bjorn
Sep 16 2008, 09:00 AM
The Cayenne is good looking for an SUV...for a Porsche, I'll agree that it isn't up to snuff.
Saloons, unlike SUVs, are not inherently unpretty.
350Z
Sep 16 2008, 09:10 AM
There are so many better looking luxury SUV's than the Cayenne, admittedly though the face lift did improve it.
moethepaki
Sep 16 2008, 09:16 AM
The original Cayenne wasn't good-looking by any stretch of the imagination. Sure it's subjective, but I think you'll find yourself in the vast minority on that one Bjorn. Even for an SUV it was awkward looking. In fact, if I didn't know it was a Porsche, I would've thought someone did a half-ass custom job gluing a 911 front-end on to a generic SUV. The new model is a different story, it really is a decent-looking SUV.
On a whole though, I think Porsche has got very few black marks against its design department. They've consistently made pretty cars throughout their history, but I don't think they're averse to getting things wrong as is clear with the original Cayenne, and IMO, the front bumper of the current Cayman (as I mentioned earlier, it looks akin to a 911 with herpes).
EDIT: The rear-end of the original 928s was pretty ghastly too (flame-suit on).
Mitlov
Sep 16 2008, 09:38 AM
QUOTE(moethepaki @ Sep 16 2008, 10:16 AM)

EDIT: The rear-end of the original 928s was pretty ghastly too (flame-suit on).
I don't think the current 911 is particularly good-looking. Indeed, I think it's slightly awkward looking. I've tried to talk myself into liking it, but I just don't. [industrial-strength flamesuit on]
duality
Sep 16 2008, 02:07 PM
clarkma5
Sep 16 2008, 04:33 PM
^^ That's just a 997 Turbo. Beautiful detail shot, though.
maxima302
Sep 18 2008, 03:06 PM
QUOTE(clarkma5 @ Sep 15 2008, 11:15 AM)

What will make or break this car stylistically will be the C-pillar and trunk area. I suspect the camo'd cars really hid the beauty of that region but we won't know for sure until they release it.
Exactly! From the test mule images, that area looks hugely bulky and un-athletic. I'm also curious to see what the exhaust treatment will look like.
tune
Sep 19 2008, 02:39 AM
That's really what I was getting at with it looking awkward. I don't mind the 911 design, I wouldn't say it's beautiful, it's elegant in a way I suppose, so following that design onto this wouldn't create a good looking car for me.
Mitlov
Sep 24 2008, 12:26 PM
9ff fills in the gaps and gives us some drawings of the full Panamera (because they're already working on tuning it, those worm-eating early birds):
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/24/9ff-alr...rsche-panamera/If those drawings are accurate, Porsche has done a nice job of using a hatchback design to mirror the silhouette of a rear-engine car. Certainly distinctive and immediately recognizable as a Porsche.
moethepaki
Sep 24 2008, 12:28 PM
I'd reread that article Mitlov. I don't think 9ff has their hands on a Panamera yet. They're simply speculating, and trying to see if they can get investors for the project, so when the Panamera drops they can hit the ground running.
Mitlov
Sep 24 2008, 12:31 PM
QUOTE(moethepaki @ Sep 24 2008, 01:28 PM)

I'd reread that article Mitlov. I don't think 9ff has their hands on a Panamera yet. They're simply speculating, and trying to see if they can get investors for the project, so when the Panamera drops they can hit the ground running.
By "working on tuning it," I meant planning the tuned Panamera, not actually physical tuning the thing. The way people who build concept models for a new building are "working on building it" before the foundation is ever poured. Sorry for the confusion.
moethepaki
Sep 24 2008, 12:35 PM
Somehow, I doubt 9ff has anymore information on the Panamera than us. I can imagine Porsche being pretty tight-lipped about it until the actual release. I can't see anyone, save for Ruf, having access to info on the Panamera at this point.
maxima302
Sep 24 2008, 05:56 PM
Doubt Ruf has any info on the Panamera either. I was at a minority dealer's conference last year and was talking to a Porsche rep about the relationship between Porsche and Ruf and he said little to none. He said Porsche actually teaches employees and dealers that the cars that leave the Porsche factory are perfect in every aspect, and that the Ruf versions are essentially bastardizations!
moethepaki
Sep 25 2008, 12:26 AM
^ Haha, sounds like Nazis to me. I didn't figure Ruf would, but I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, considering they seem to be the best respected Porsche tuner out there.
tune
Sep 25 2008, 03:09 AM
What ever came of the RUF engine theft scandal, was that all lies or what?
moethepaki
Oct 1 2008, 02:54 AM
^ Wasn't it TechArt?
tune
Oct 1 2008, 04:48 AM
Maybe...
moethepaki
Oct 1 2008, 05:31 AM
Dr. Strangelove
Oct 1 2008, 05:45 AM
No it's not, look at that rear end. The first picture made me want to puke.
Razor
Oct 1 2008, 05:46 AM
Estoque FTW. Rapide FTW. Panamera FTMFL.
Synesthesia
Oct 1 2008, 08:31 AM
This is stupid, this isn't how cars are supposed to be unveiled.
tune
Oct 2 2008, 04:30 AM
Hmm looks a little awkward to me....
moethepaki
Oct 2 2008, 04:36 AM
QUOTE(Synesthesia @ Oct 1 2008, 07:31 PM)

This is stupid, this isn't how cars are supposed to be unveiled.
I dunno what you're getting at, but this is the same it's always been. The only thing different as of late, are magazines breaking "embargoes" and releasing images ahead of time.
Synesthesia
Oct 2 2008, 04:51 AM
QUOTE(moethepaki @ Oct 2 2008, 08:36 AM)

I dunno what you're getting at, but this is the same it's always been. The only thing different as of late, are magazines breaking "embargoes" and releasing images ahead of time.
I'm referring to
2 years of spy shots (
Link). Maybe it's just that we've seen a particularly large amount of Panamera spy shots, but I'm so tired of seeing them and it reduces the excitement for the official unveiling. And this is not typical of new cars.
moethepaki
Nov 22 2008, 06:23 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, the Porsche Panamera...

I'm not sure what to make of it. It's not ugly, but I'm not sure whether it's beautiful or at least even pretty...I think this is very much a car I'll have to see in the flesh to decide. It's funny, I was just a special Porsche exhibit at the mall talking about the Panamera with some friends, then I came home to this. Anyway, some details...
QUOTE
The Porsche Panamera Gran Turismo is 16.3 feet long, 6.3 feet wide and 4.66 feet tall, with a wheelbase of 9.6 feet. Weight hasn't been disclosed, but its roughly two tons. The most striking detail on the profile shot is the indentations leading from the front fenders, aft of the wheels, into the doors, but the jury is still out on the Panamera's bulbous back end. The slippery shape and low profile gives the sedan a drag coefficient of 0.29, while an electronically actuated rear spoiler will keep things planted at speed.
An electronic air suspension is part of the package, along with an LSD, and power can be sent to either the rear wheels, or all four, depending on the trim level. Motivation will be provided by a range of engines, beginning with 3.6-liter V6 putting out 300 hp, and continuing upwards with the 400 hp, 4.8-liter V8 Panamera S and the Panamera Turbo, packing a twin-turbocharged version of the same bent eight putting out an estimated 500 hp. Power will be sent to Porsche's new PDK dual-clutch gearbox and although a diesel model has been ruled out, a V6-hybrid variant with 350 hp will come along at a later date.
Porsche aims to sell approximately 20,000 units of the Panamera each year, with the automaker estimating that 20% will be the range-topping Turbo model. The Panamera will only be available in S and Turbo guises at launch, with the V6 model following shortly thereafter. Once established, Porsche hopes demand will increase to 50,000 units annually, with sales beginning in the U.S., Europe and Asia next year.
Source:
AutoblogEDIT: It's already growing on me. I think it's gorgeous, it just needs to ditch those plain-Jane rims for some Turbo items, or at the very least some Carrera Classics. Can someone do a chop with some Turbo rims? Diesel?
hexagone
Nov 22 2008, 07:39 AM
Bugatti EB 218 anyone?
darinzon
Nov 22 2008, 08:01 AM
man, they really messed up that rear end. i have a feeling it would look a lot better if they made it more wagon-like by squaring it off at the top rather than just having a bland, undefined curve making up the entire rear structure.
Mitlov
Nov 22 2008, 09:30 AM
Aesthetically, I love it (edit: the Panamera, not the Bugatti). It's not stunningly gorgeous like Aston Martin's Rapide, but it's immediately identifiable as a Porsche without looking forced or contrived. They've done very well in making a FR five-door share the overall silhouette with a RR 2+2.
What kills me, though, is that there's not even an option for a flat six. I realize that some customers will demand a V8, but wouldn't it have been awesome if it shared a base engine with a Carrera and had the 911 Turbo's engine as an option?
duality
Nov 22 2008, 10:16 AM
///drum roll///
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/22/more-po...a-pics-surface/

i actually find it pleasing..ofcourse gotta see it in real to have a final verdict...but it looks splendid. the hatchish rear could be better, but its not so bad

i wonder what the final interior looks like.
Bjorn
Nov 22 2008, 10:32 AM
I'm really torn over this, the car from the rear doors forward is pretty good, if not a bit bland, I think I need to see one in person before I can make a judgment call on the rear of the car.
moethepaki
Nov 22 2008, 11:10 AM
QUOTE(Mitlov @ Nov 22 2008, 09:30 PM)

What kills me, though, is that there's not even an option for a flat six. I realize that some customers will demand a V8, but wouldn't it have been awesome if it shared a base engine with a Carrera and had the 911 Turbo's engine as an option?
I agree 100% I looked through the available engines, and was like "Wait, what...V6...what's that?"
QUOTE(duality @ Nov 22 2008, 10:16 PM)

///drum roll///
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/22/more-po...a-pics-surface/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/me...11/1568747c.jpghttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/me...11/3330649d.jpgi actually find it pleasing..ofcourse gotta see it in real to have a final verdict...but it looks splendid. the hatchish rear could be better, but its not so bad

i wonder what the final interior looks like.
THAT is seriously pretty.
QUOTE(Bjorn @ Nov 22 2008, 10:32 PM)

I'm really torn over this, the car from the rear doors forward is pretty good, if not a bit bland, I think I need to see one in person before I can make a judgment call on the rear of the car.
Funny, I remember you supporting that Porsche would get it right more than anyone else. I still think it's gorgeous.
Bjorn
Nov 22 2008, 12:54 PM
I had faith that the car would be good looking. I still think it could be good looking, but from the angles it was photographed from in these pictures it doesn't look great.
Like I said in my original post, I'm withholding my final decision until I see one in the flesh.
EDIT, As I look at the blue car more and more, I'm finding I like it more and more...I think these photographs are taken from too low an angle, making the car look artificially tall and big. I think once I see it in a location which has other things to give a sense of scale I'll like it even more.
I wonder if the V8 Turbo will top 320km/h...500bhp plus a 0.29 COD figure could spell one super fast saloon...
Also I think a flat six would be too wide to fit between a set of suspension uprights...but I might be wrong.
Mitlov
Nov 22 2008, 01:03 PM
QUOTE(Bjorn @ Nov 22 2008, 12:54 PM)

Also I think a flat six would be too wide to fit between a set of suspension uprights...but I might be wrong.
If they had built it for V engines from the beginning, that's true. But they easily could have worked in a flat six if they wanted to. If Subaru can make flat fours and flat sixes work in a front-engined configuration, Porsche certainly could, given the resources they've spent on the Panamera.
I know this isn't realistic, because the target market would be really small, but I would sell a kidney for a Panamera with the 345 hp 3.6L flat six from the new Carrera, a six-speed manual, and either RWD or AWD. Coolest. Family. Sedan. Ever.
clarkma5
Nov 22 2008, 01:32 PM
It's about what I predicted...it's more attractive than it looked under camo but not "gorgeous". Porsche rarely does "gorgeous", they do attractive.
And Mitlov, I would bet that the Panamera with the 3.6 liter flat-6 would feel kinda wheezy. I think their decision to go with the VR6 is the right one...it's tuned for more midrange torque and will fit the Panamera's weight and personality more.
eraser_rx
Nov 22 2008, 04:26 PM
best angle so far:
http://www.cars-pictures-index.com/files/images/68.jpgedit: oups.....just realized that's a chop....thx duality....
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