So for those of you who didn't read the "do you like to drive" thread in C&C, My wife and I are expecting our first in about 7 months.

As such it's time for me to get an "adult" car. Since I won't drive an SUV that pretty much leaves wagons. I had decided on a second hand N/A 2.5L Subaru Legacy, however there are none for sale in my area, and the sales people I have talked to say they're very very rare in the used market here. based on the following qualifications: Wagon, AWD, Manual, Larger model (no glorified hatchbacks), European or Japanese and fun to drive, I have made a short list of alternatives;

Subaru Forrester:
Pros: easier to find, Subaru quality, massive inside compared to most wagons.
Cons: kinda SUV like, might not handle like a car, still difficult to find.

Audi A6 Avant:
Pros: big & luxurious inside, German build quality, Quattro AWD system
Cons: may only be able to afford older car with more KM's, reliability of minor components seems to be a problem with some German cars, $$ to fix?

Audi Allroad:
Pros: looks bad assed, see A6
Cons: See A6, Trick suspension may be mega $$ to fix!

Mercedes E class estate:
Pros: see A6
Cons: see A6

BMW 5 series estate:
Pros: see A6
Cons: see A6

VW Passat Estate:
Pros: See A6, may be cheaper than more upscale brands
Cons: Poor reliability? $$ to fix? Hard to find?

Volvo V70 AWD:
Pros: Volvo safety
Cons: hard to find manual tranny cars, $$ to fix?, reliability issues?

Volvo XC70:
Pros: looks bad assed, Volvo safety
Cons: see V70

Saab 9-5 SportCombi:
Pros: kinda cool looking an unique
Cons: may not be available with AWD, I know absolutely nothing about Saab aside from them being based on Opels (is the 9-5 a Vectra?), may be hard to find.

I probably missed some...if I did please feel free to add to my list, I would also be interested in knowing what your experiences with some of these cars has been, whether you have owned one, known someone who has owned one, or have heard anything through the media or what not.

My budget is about $20-30K CAD, and I don't mind driving south of the boarder for a deal!

I don't know a lot about pricing, but if i were to choose one of those cars i would either chose a subaru or audi. It also depends what you use your car for, and where you live.We have a subaru impreza wagon, and it's fun, reliablenand just right for us. Considering that u live in the country and you have 2 dogs, and a soon to come kid, i would recommend the forester. That's just my opinion though.

^I live in a country which is covered in snow from late October to early April...and I really like the freedom provided by a good AWD car, also I do a a lot of sports which involve things like surf boards and skis, so I need something with roof rails. Also I have two Labradors which pretty much go everywhere with me, so I need a wagon as opposed to a sedan.

Also, I don't know what the moderators of this forum prefer, but a ^ would be a welcome alternative to quoting a post directly above your reply...I don't mean this to offend you, just something that might help this place look a bit cleaner and make threads easier to read.

My first choice would be the Audi A6, personally. I'd suggest in a wintry climate going with the Audi, Subaru, or Volvo.

Reading your reply in other thread i would say ditch the stupid status symbol and get a Forester. Cheap and reliable.

I have a lot of friends with E39 5-series, and they're good-looking, fun to drive, solidly built, spacious, and reliable. Repairs can be expensive though.

A friend also had an S80 (more or less similar to the V70), and it was solidly built, reliable, and a very comfortable. Not much fun though.

I'm not sure any of those cars come with manuals other than the Forrester, Passat, and 5-series. But you've missed out the Volvo V50 and the Jaguar X-type Sportwagon. If you don't mind American cars, there's also the Ford Taurus X (Freestyle), and the Dodge Magnum.

Personally, I'd go with the 5-series. It's got a lot going for it, just keep in mind that repairs can be on the pricey side.

Yeah Wacko, that was a horrendous post. Please edit it.

Bjorn,

Why are you not considering the Outback? It seems to be very much like the Legacy wagon and less SUV than the Forester.

^ Is that better Synthesia?

I believe it's auto-only, but I'm pretty sure almost everything in this segment is.

Get a Forester 2.5 XT. That thing is an animal.

I don't see the value in an Outback. It is essentially a Legacy with some plastic panels and a lift kit. It's also just as rare as a Legacy in these parts, and has a rather large premium attached to it (you can expect to pay about $5,000 over and above the asking price for a Legacy with similar KMs)

After finding out that my other options are about as plentiful as the Legacy, I'm starting to lean towards the Forrester, but I want to spend a day in one first, to make sure I can still have some fun.

Well, he listed it as a con.



Well I mentioned it since your sub-title suggested that you were interested in a Legacy wagon and they are very similar. I can't believe they still consider the Forester a wagon. I saw one today...it's hard to tell the difference in clearance between say the RAV4.

EDIT: That's bullshit. The Forester actually has more ground clearance than the RAV4. It is an SUV. If you're interested in the Forester there are a lot of other things to start considering.

Bjorn, I was just looking up pricing for the Legacy Wagon on the Canadian website. Seems you can get the base model within your budget if you go easy on the options. It comes with pretty much everything you need anyway. Why don't you just go for a brand new one? If you plan on keeping it for a while, it's not a bad idea.

Btw, I just remembered a friend who has a Forrester. It was the first generation model though. He said it was plenty of fun, even as a base model. Did a decent job of going off-road too. The current ones are pretty ugly though...

Moe, I don't like the hit I take on depreciation on a new vehicle...to that end I called Subaru today and asked about 2005 and 2006 Legacys. Apparently they are expecting a bunch of lease returns between now and July (when the kid is supposed to arrive), so I should be able to get a second hand, certified Legacy. I might not have much choice in terms of colour or options, but Legacys come pretty well equipped, and I don't hate any of the colours the car came in.

I'm also set to test drive a XC70 this week, but I doubt I'll like it too much. It only comes as an automatic, and doesn't sound too sporty from what I have read.

Bjorn, I think this fits nicely into your budget

While a Hemi wagon would be wicked cool, I have a friend with a 300C, and his MPG is 12 when he's careful and a lot less when he's not.

I have this funny thing where I delight in getting good MPG figures. I drove all the way to Quebec City this year the entire time pitting each tank of gas against the one previous. ..it was a lot of fun.

It's a shame, because I think the Magnum is the best looking Chrysler out there right now...and was very disappointed when I heard they were axed.

What about a Volvo V70R if you can find one ? I think they came in a 6-speed, or at least the S60 R did. You'll also need to save some money for a set of stylish winter wheels too!

^I have no desire to have something with tonnes of horsepower as a daily driver...I would rather save my money, buy the lower powered car, and upgrade the shocks and rollbars.

I have never owned a car with more than 170bhp, and to tell you the truth, I don't feel like I'm missing out. I still have fun, while getting 8L/100km.

a non-turbo or LPT Volvo wagon would also be a good choice.

Ideally get an 850 or a V70 from 1998 or older, they have much fewer problems. Fantastic cars especially in LPT form... about 200bhp, lots of torque, completely satisfying for a daily driver and if you get the itch for me and have some cash, ipd can add a considerable amount of BHP for not much dough.

UwhoreB

Bjorn, I know you aren't into SUVs, but have you taken a look at the CRV? I took a look at one since my mom was interested. The latest version is pretty much a wagon from the way it's styled, to the way it behaves on the road. Looks pretty slick, is decently fun to drive, and has plenty of space. I'd take a look.

^and a great interior

i love the texture on some of the interior surfaces

I would say the same things about the new RAV4. I recently drove one with the base engine...I was surprised, it was actually pretty fun and felt good both to be in and to drive. And I'm sure the base engine gets great gas mileage.

Friends own both RAVs and CR-Vs, and to tell you the truth, I wasn't thrilled by either. Also I have had bad experiences with both Honda Canada and Toyota Canada.

Subaru treats me well, and I have had nothing but positive experiences with them.

I think I have pretty much decided on either an off lease Legacy or a Forrester. I'll make the final decision after I get some seat time in a Forrester...which should happen in the spring since my dealership told me I could probably borrow a loaner car for the weekend...I also have a XC70 test drive this weekend...