The tires on my Jetta are pretty badly worn, and I want to replace them before winter sets in. I called the dealership, and they said that the car was running on Michelin Pilots HX MXM4s, and quoted me a $1,022 out-the-door price for another set of four.

My jaw hit the floor.

I called Les Schwab (pretty popular where I live, partly due to their customer service, but I guess they're kind of a second-tier tire manufacturer?). They quoted me at $704 out the door for their Proxes-4 ties (one of their upper-end tires), and $527.60 out-the-door for something more mid-range.

My question is this: how much is reasonable for a set of good day-to-day sporty tires that will never see a track day? I have no idea what price range is "middle of the road," what is "cheapo," and what is "top-of-the-line." I really don't have money sitting around to burn, but on the other hand, I'm a big believer in good-quality tires. So I'm looking for a compromise.

How much do you think should be spent on good-quality-but-not-track-ready tires? Ballpark figure.

You can get good all seasons for $100-$150 piece from discount or tirerack so i would say $600 is a good enough OTD figure.

P.S. I am assuming you are not going to be switching from summer to winter specials ?
edit: you running 225/45/17 ?

Yeah, one tire for 12 months. We don't see enough snow here to justify the price of dedicated winter tires.



So is the dealership engaging in highway robbery when asking for $1000 for a set of stock tires, or are the stock tires absurdly good, or what?

The OEM Michelins are expensive as all fuck, Mitlov. Don't buy them. They're overpriced because they're OEM on half the cars you buy these days and everyone just asks for OEM when they replace them, assuming they're good, so they charge an arm and a leg. They're not bad tires, but at ~$200 apiece (or more), they cost about twice as much as they're worth IMO.

I'm in the market for a set of tires and I'm looking at ~$520 installed for a set of BFGoodrich g-Force Sports or about ~$720 for a set of Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s or Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2s. I don't see the point in spending more than that on a set of tires for 225/45R17; the goodyears and the michelins are both fantastic tires (serious upgrade from stock) while even the BFGs would be a step up from the Pilot MXs.

You want a good set of performance all-seasons that aren't expensive, get some Continental ContiExtreme Contacts. Lightweight, inexpensive, and based on experience I've had with them on my friend's Audi A4, they're a much better driving tire than the OEMs.

Potenza RE960 PP

Falken Ze-912

Just to get you started ..

Then theres Kumho Escta ASX, Hankooks, Continental ContiExtremeContact ... and obviously Michellin Pilot Sport AS

the above links are for 225/45/17 .. smaller sized tires are obviously cheaper

His tires are 225/45R17.

The Kuhmos aren't bad but my search would start and stop with the Contis. Even when you take value out of the equation, they're just good tires, period. The bridgestones are good too but they weigh 26 pounds a corner instead of 20 pounds per corner for the Contis (making them the heaviest and lightest 225/45R17 tires, respectively).

Just remember .. discount tire or firestone or any other shop will match prices with tirerack so save yourself a few $$ there ..

For the record ... Costco is by far the cheapest place to get tires from so long as you buy Michellin or BFG

Goddamn it, this is why I love this site. Thanks everyone.

Local tire guy says ContiExtremeContacts are on back-order until the end of November It's too bad, because he had quoted me at $540 out-the-door for them. And it's $800 out the door for some Bridgestone Potenza Pole Positions. That's more than I'd like to spend.

Other suggestions?

My first step would be to try a different tire shop...

Don't know how Toyo Proxes T1-R are for bigger cars. For light cars they have the reputation of being a good rain tire and good value for money. They smear if they are being stressed and get hot, especially on the track but you excluded that anyway.

I had the Continental ContiExtremeContacts on my Eclipse and they were outstanding for the price. Check some other shops for them maybe?

Uwe, he's talking about a different Toyo than the T1-R, because the T1-Rs are summer tires and he's looking for all-seasons...

I have those tires on my car and they are stupid pricey. The contis or yokohamas are good choice for all season tires, I had both and was pretty happy.

Only one other tire shop in the area carries the Continental tires, and they're quoting me $749.95 for four ContiExtremeContacts ($200 more than the other shop), AND they'd have to back-order it, just like the first shop. I tell you, you Bay Area folks don't know how good you have it.

A lot of folks at VWVortex suggested the Kumho Ecsta ASX, but according to TireRack, it's not as good in water or snow as its competition, and ride quality isn't the best. It's an option, and the price is right, but given those issues, it's not my top choice right now. I'd at least like to figure out some other good options.

What, you can't go to Medford or Grants Pass or something? Or just order from tirerack?

The Kuhmos are a decent second place; MunG35 has them on his Protege and they're good. I wouldn't reccomend against them in any way, it's just that the Contis would be my first choice. The bridgestones are good too, but as said before, they're very heavy and they're more pricy.

It looks like the problem is with Continental itself, not the individual shops. Even Tire Rack is saying that the availability on my size ContiExtremeContacts is "11/30/07." That's what all the shops were telling me too. Continental just plain ran out of 225/45 R17s, I guess. And with winter weather starting here, I'm not sure I want to drive another month on badly-worn tires.

And for the record, I was talking Medford. Ashland has one tire shop, and they don't carry Continentals at all.

Well then it looks like you're in for Kuhmo ECSTA ASXs or Bridgestone Potenza RE960ASs. Or you could do something weird like buy a set of used rims with good tires off VWVortex and run those until you can get contis on your existing rims, then re-sell the rims you bought.

my friend was trying to get the contis but they were nationally back ordered so he ended with Yokohamas

With the local shop quoting me $356 out the door for the Kumhos and $799 out the door for the Bridgestones, and with a kid at home making money scarce, I think I know which way I'm going to go. $450 buys a lot of diapers and wipes. And while the Bridgestones are better tires, I'm not sure they're more than twice as good--the Kumhos really do have very good ratings at Tire Rack.

You cant really go wrong with Kumhos. Just shop around for Falkens too

I've got a set of Hankook Ventus on my car, they aren't bad at all.

I tell everyone, you can't look at brands of tires, it comes down to models. Kuhmo, like everyone else, makes good tires and bad tires. Also, being a budget tire, people tend to be more OK with them not being as good because they're cheap. For instance, for years, the ECSTA Supra 712 was the standard for a cheap performance tire, but they represented an utterly massive downgrade from the OEM tires on my friend's protege, and even pailed in comparison to Kuhmo's own ECSTA 711.

It even comes down to sizes and (not to forget) car weight.

I remember having read a test of semi slick tires in my car magazine where the Hankook Whatevertheyrecalled were very good and Yokohama A048 were somewhere in the middle. All tested on a BMW M3 with 17" wheels, IIRC. Which is completely in contrast to what all of my fellow Seveners and myself experienced. The A048 in 13" are brilliant while the Hankooks are utter crap.

True, but in the realm of more normal passenger cars, the weights and sizes tend to be closer together.

I bought a set of Michelin Pilot Exaltos and I have to say I am very impressed. The $700 CAD I spent on them would have to have the best dollar for performance gain ratio of any "Mod" I have ever had done.

I tend to shy away from Bridgestone tires, as the reviews I have read about them make the tires sound very one dimensional in their characteristics...the absolutely shine in one area, while being completely daft in another.

The one thing that all modern bridgestones seem to have in common is their high weight for their size, and considering the benefits of having low unsprung weight, I tend to avoid them on that basis alone.

^That is a great point...and one I would never considered until you brought it up...

Now I'm wondering how heavy my tires are!

Well look 'em up on tirerack. In my experience from reading the specs, michelins tend to be on the lighter side, though continental seem to be the ones who are consistently the lightest.

Most people i asked when shopping for my tires said that the heavier bridgestones have stiffer sidewalls which translates to better turn in and all the good things associated with it. Not sure how much it matters to others but for some its a very big deal.

Those Michelin tires you're replacing are garbage. My wife's Volvo came with them as the factory tire and I hated them. The fact that they were so expensive sealed the deal for not getting them again. I like to stay around $100 per tire since the largest I've bought so far was 17". However, I'd be willing to spend $200 per tire if their performance and longevity justified it. For what it's worth I ended up going with the BFGoodrich g-Force Sports for the S40.

How are you liking those BFGs fiber? They're at or near the top of my list and I've yet to get someone's opinion on them directly.

And I, too, was of the opinion that the Michelins were garbage until I went to a track day and the instructor highly praised the tires on my car, stating that "you can really feel them work, and they're letting you get away with things that lesser tires wouldn't." That was somewhat confirmed by the fact that I was about 10 MPH faster in the slow corners with my GTI than I was with my brother's Avon M550-shod WRX and had the grip to pressure an E46 M3 and a G35 Coupe into spinning off track...

Spoke to a few guys who are running g-force sports on sti/ wrx and for dry conditions the tires are great but the wet traction is iffy to downright dangerous. Also they all bitched about them turning noisy as they started to wear.
Gist: Great in the dry and very nice treadwear tendency.

Miltov, have you considered this? I was stunned at how cheap I got my Michelin X-Radials for. Costco installs for free, and if you get something that they are running a sale on...I got $60 off per tire.

Already made arrangements with the aforementioned tire shop to get the Kumho ASXs.

Are your tires that worn out that you bought them in a hurry ?

I did two day's research and found out that Kumhos were the most affordable "really good" tire on the market. What's wrong with that? I didn't think waiting a month AND paying 50% more was worth it for the Contis.

And maybe I wouldn't have acted quite as quickly if I wasn't scraping ice off my windshield every morning this week. But I don't think two days of research is insufficient for buying a set of tires.

<-- 2 months

Not trying to diss you. Nothing wrong with the decision you took.

hey Mitlov does the Les Schwab were you live give you free beef when you buy tires there?
haha. they do where i live. it's fucking odd.

Yeah. It's not so much "odd" as "redneck."

What's awesome is that a local bike shop has started giving away free tofu when you buy bicycle tires there.

If it helps, I've currently got the BFGoodrich g-Force Sports on my WRX. I've had the stock bridgestones, Khumo 712s, and Khumo ASXs, and the g-Force sports are by far the best. They're quite inexpensive and they perform very well. To top it off they wear very well, especially compared to the 712s, which barely lasted me a year. I bought mine at tirerack.com and I think they're great tires for the money. My thoughts for what it's worth.

Thanks for the input, though compared to those other tires I would expect the BFGs to impress.

Mitlov, I know you've probably already got the tires on your car. But just for comparison, I just put a set of 225/55/16 Goodyear Assurance TripleTreds on my car for $650 @ Discount Tire. (I have had great experience with these tires in MN winters.) So, back to your original question about ballpark figures, you're right in there.

Well, since I wasn't very impressed with the OE Michelins I think these are a big improvement. They seem to be wearing a bit better and the dry launch traction feels much better. I think they are comparable in the rain. All that and the price was good and the tread pattern looks a little more aggressive, but not out of place on a Volvo.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...del=Exclaim+UHP my recommendation

avoid the ecsta ASX in my opinion... a subpar tire.

That's a summer tire; I need all-season, remember?

oh you're in Oregon... eh... that sucks. This is a good tire if you live somewhere where it doesn't snow or ice over frequently, as it has very good hydroplaning resistance etc. But if you have snow... ehhh...

I'd recommend getting some 15" steelies on the cheap and getting winter tires, getting a good "summer" (3-season) tire for the 17's. But that could be cost prohibitive, even if it's the ideal setup.

Yep, cost prohibitive when I have a kid and a one-income family.

Also pretty pointless in Oregon. It's not like he's under snow for months out of a year, he just has to deal with rain and maybe a couple days of snow.

This would be my recommendation too. 15" tires will be notably cheaper so you might be exactly at the same money - steel rims included - like for the 17".

And in the long term it is probably cheaper because all-season tires usually are a bit softer and wear off faster than summer tires. Plus you have a much bigger choice for your summer tires and you don't have to expose your alu rims to salted streets.