http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=120342



This is going to mean Stability Control in cars that shouldn't have it and an increased occurrence of non-defeatable systems from stupid manufacturers. Of course, this also means that ABS will be required as well, since Stability Control requires it, which means the government has managed to mandate two things in one fell swoop.

....

I maintain that older cars are better than newer cars - less technological intervention. I mean, look at the F40 vs the Enzo for example. F40 has no electronic intervention, EVER, but with the Enzo everything has to go through the computer

I think technology has its place. If you've got a soccer mom hauling kids in a Minivan, I think ESC is great. But I question it in a Honda S2000. I like ABS in a BMW M3...but not in a Lotus Elise necessarily. Basically I think the market will encourage the implementation of such safety measures in cars that should have them and not in those that shouldn't, and the government shouldn't be regulating such things.

And another thought that pisses me off...they force cars to have seat belts, airbags, and now ABS and stability control...and yet motorcycles are still legal. I mean, if you're going to be pressing regulations to increase safety, why is it all on cars? Why are deathcycles still available? Or, hell, cigarettes?

This is not to suggest that I think banning motorcycles or cigarettes is a good idea, just that the focus on regulating cars is far far too strong in the greater context of safety in our society.

Soon old cars will be outlawed for being too dangerous on public roads and the outcry will be silenced with the governmnet assuring people that they're d oing it for the PEOPLES benefit.

Clark makes a valid point (about cigs, not bikes). If the gov't is so worried about ppl killing themselves they should ban smokes. I'll bet they kill more people annually than motor vehicle accidents. They certainly cost the tax payers more.

Speaking of old ppls driving, there was this old lady in magna doing 40km/h in a 70 zone, then she tried to turn left from the middle lane. Certainly ppls should be banned from driving when they get this bad.

World's going to end in 2013 so it doesn't really matter.

You mean 2010.

I'm pretty sure any car worth driving will allow the system to be defeated completely...much like BMW already does.

Basically what needs to be called for is legislation that dictates what vehicles are required to have ESC and which ones aren't, as opposed to a blanket legislation. And there are endless numbers of ways to accomplish such a task. Here are a few ideas:

1) Dictate it on the production numbers. Draw the line allowing performance/enthusiast/track-ready vehicles to slide in underneath of it, such as Elises. While vehicles such as Camrys and Caravans will obviously be above the threshold, thus required to have ESC.

2) Base it on HP. Highpowered sports cars will be exempt, while your average pedestrian grocery-getters will be mandated. This has holes the size of the Grand Canyon in it, though. It could mean that an Elise would be mandated, while a 400-hp Escalade could skate without it.

3) My final thought is to base it on GVW. Most sports cars are typically smaller and lighter than average family cars. Depending upon where the line is drawn, this could be good for enthusiasts. If a car such as an M3 were over the threshold by say 150lbs, maybe BMW would put it on a diet so it would not be mandated. Furthermore, this may cause manufacturers to release special light-weight versions of cars; I think this would be win-win. The automotive industry would love this, which admit it or not, pulls strings in Washington, D.C. They could release light-weight versions (or an option package) of their sports cars at a premium price, while enthusiasts would have the option of purchasing light-weight versions of thier favorite sports cars.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I wonder why the automotive industry isn't pushing back over this? It could be that the entire industry is going to pass the cost on to the consumer, us.

Either way, I believe there are vehicles that should be mandated such as Camrys and Caravans. There are some really fucking dumb shit numbskull drivers out there. But then again, maybe we should just let them kill themselves. I dunno.

How about just making it standard with an option to turn it off? Most cars that have it these days allow you to do so, keep it that way.

none of this is really necessary. Just make the drivers licence tests a lot more difficult than they are now and all will be taken care of.

How is that any better in principle? Now you're trusting the government to draw the line properly. Let the market sort it out, safety is a selling point to the people who buy the sorts of cars that you and I think should have ESC anyway.



YES exactly. With renewal testing every 5-10 years.

That would be ideal, but the point of this legislation is to protect people from themselves. And I somehow think that the gov't would interpret the ability to turn it off as a loophole or a backdoor to undermind the legislation. Thus, they would complicate this to the point that I did <-- and that's why I over complicated it.


I feel you there, bro. However, I am on the road 100% of the time for my job and the worst drivers I see are not young, new drivers. They are middle-aged people who are on their cellphones, doing their hair/makeup, eating, reading, babysitting, etc... But improving the drivers ed programs here in the States would definitely be a solid start.

EDIT: Damnit, clarkma got in before me. But yeah renewal testing would be another progressive step in the right direction.

^And the gov't is the business of babysitting us, so why not strike a compromise to let them feel like they are in control. But I do believe the market is the most efficient judge and jury (I was an econ. major in college), but sadly our contemporary gov't does not feel the same way.

Agreed! I always told people "The easiest test I've ever taken in my life was my driving test" and it's the truth. Here if you can't parallel park they let you skip it! If you try it and fuck up, they let you slide instead of giving you an automatic fail. The road test is a complete fucking joke, it's not even on the road but instead in a parking lot with some cones. Any idiot who is old enough can get a license now.

Also...

I think trying to require something such as stability control and a lot of these other safety features into cars are only making drivers dumber. They know that they can take more risks because there is always a computer controlled safety net built into their car.

Exactly, ESC does not negate physics.

AND, with compulsory advanced driver training.

No, stupid.

The equation for calculating the end of the world is "Current Year + 6.66 = Final Year"

We need an automotive enthusiast lobby group up on the hill. WTF? Where are the automotive corporation's lobby groups when you need 'em?

Werd [sic]. But the automotive industry lobbyists (sp?) would be fighting for legislation that would boost their bottom-lines/profits. The NHRA, SEMA, or another enthusiast organization needs to be lobbying in D.C.

Does anybody here want to get off thier ass to do it? I don't. I prefer to sit on my couch and bitch about it on internet forums. I barely have enough ambition to wipe myself.

I can understand the point that the government wants to make cars safer, but it sounds like they're saying ESC is the only way it can be done which obviously is wrong.

My car has essentially zero electronics, no airbags, no ESC or ABS and I've been perfectly safe in my car because I'm attentive, careful, and I drive the way I think other people should drive. Better driver education sounds like a better solution to the problem to me.

Wow, fuckng idiots! *makes assorted noises of frustration and punches monitor*

I just want to drive! I am all for joining a political group that protects the rights of car enthusiasts. Who are we going to get for a spokesperson. Leno?

If you need ESC to save your life, you shouldn't drive anyways.

"Hmmm. The car is going sideways. More gas? Less gas? Brake? Damn, this is tough."