where’s that leave Pontiac?

Everybody loves a sports car, right? So how come I picked up my Automotive News and read (July 5, page 1): Summer's a bummer for two-seaters.

The story says, "The bottom has dropped out of America 's small roadster market." We've got any important issue here. Not because of the sport cars on sale now, but because the Pontiac Solstice is coming next spring. The racy two-seater is Robert Lutz's effort to put some excitement back in GM cars. If the Solstice flops it could discredit the GM vice chairman and his work. As far as I'm concerned Lutz and his team are saving GM.

So first let's see what's happening: He's a list of sport cars, closed and open roadsters, six months sales:



Six months 2004 2003

Chevy Corvette 18,388 16,946

Nissan 350Z 16,839 19,503

BMW Z4 7359 9869

Chrysler Crossfire 7636 275

Ford T'Bird 7072 9877

Mercedes SL 7019 5732

Chevy SSR 5442 0

Mazda Miata 5266 5721

Lexus SC430 4887 5206

Porsche 911 4808 4748

Honda S2000 4238 4295

Audi TT 2954 4094

Porsche Boxster 2307 3467

Mercedes SLK 2118 3173

Cadillac XLR 1910 0

Toyota MR2 1702 1615



Okay, you don't like the Ford Thunderbird or the Lexus SC430 on the list, wonder about the SSR, and want the Mazda RX-8 included as a sports car (12,680 for the new rotary versus 14 the year before). Also this list includes not only open cars but closed coupe sports cars. But a few things stand out:

a. When you look at coupes and roadsters, the sales are pretty much the same but there are a large number out there considering how small the market is. That holds down volume of individual makes.

b. Novelty counts. Sport cars can fade fast, which might explain a slowdown with the Nissan Z. And the new BMW Z4 is off sharply despite $3500-$4500 incentive money. Some blame that on the design, but it looks good to me.

Why and how it happens

Why so many? Foreign manufacturers, usually run by engineers or "car guys," think sports cars are important. American companies, often run by financial types, can't understand why they matter. Hey, General Motors doesn't even have a real convertible (meaning with a back seat, not the Corvette). Bankers like roofs over their heads. The foreigners also have world markets while Detroit doesn't.

That said, Here's what I think has happened:

a. New small convertibles (not open two seat sports cars) siphon off some of the market: The New Beetle, the PT Cruiser and the Mini convertibles. Fun is fun, but a back seat is really handy.

b. The "boy racers" take over and turn lower priced roasters into high-priced models by making the engines bigger. The BMW Z3 started as a four-cylinder model around $30,000. Now the Z4 starts with a six around $40,000. Motor Trend magazine ran a test of roadsters: the Boxster S model tested listed at $59,020, the Z4 was $47,795, the Audi TT was $47,415. Sport cars should be for young people who don't have $50,000. They should be more fun than fast. The fun in an open roadster is about 45 miles per hour on a country road. But the boy racers want p-o-w-e-r.

What about the Mazda Miata? Why isn't it selling better? Well, it has been around a long time, but frankly, Mazda dealers are weak. Imagine if the Miata had a Ford oval on the hood. They might sell 50,000 a year.

Pontiac's problem

So what about the Solstice? The price is to be low, $20,000 list, so figure $24,000 or so with options.

My advice to General Motors: keep that price low. Don't let the boy racers take over, pushing in a six and even an eight, running up the power and the price. Keep it as a four. If not, you'll

drive out the women buyers and destroy your market. Let the boy racers play with their 'Vettes.

Build a lifestyle around the car from the beginning. Solstice clubs, Class Solstice for fun racing, like Class V that was for Volkswagen Beetle racing in the old days.

Put the fun back in sports cars, not the cost.

Whoah. That camber on the solstice.

Never noticed that before. Looks good.

those numbers don't support an argument that the market is failing.

5 of the cars sold a lot more in 2004 than 2003

6 sold a lot less

and 5 pretty much stayed the same (fluctuated ~200 or less, which isn't a whole lot)

the brand new ones or ones that got a major update sold a lot more

the old models sold less obviously. because they aren't "fresh"

i saw a solstice the other day, are they not out yet?

Hey, Chairman, this article is 1 year old already...

moe, stop fucking saying you saw cars unless you have a picture. its fucking ridiculous.

DZ, good observation. i think once gas drops again, people will start liking to drive for pleasure, and the roadster market will noticably boom.

it was in my sister's friend's neighborhood, is it seriously not out?

Ignore moe...

The Solstice isnt going to sell well...At least not under the Pontiac name.

i could not have made a mistake! what other car looks like a solstice?? a no one believes me...

Well considering that it doesn't come out till late 2006, there is plenty of good reasons for people to not believe you.

hmmm, i understand...
but what the HELL did i see then? maybe someone was testing a preproduction version i guess

Maybe it was a Mazda Miata....

Yesterday, I saw a Maserati MC12 and an Enzo race each other. After I catched them by running at them they stopped and let me drive both of them . While I was driving in the Enzo I happened to pass by no less than 60 SLRs and 1 Carrera GT. On the way back I accidently crashed into the MC12 but we all had a grand ol' laugh'n'a'half about it and went about my way.

Nope, they are the real thing!

I've seen 6, count them 6, solstices in 3 weeks and they are real!!!!! There is a GM office and testing ground a few miles away and some lucky execs will trade their pep car for one of the test solstices. They arent purchased solstices, but rather ones that are used for durability testing and stuff. I saw an HHR over 4 months ago. It had the GM serial code on the winshield showing that it was a test vehicle. So dont go saying moe is a liar because there are some.

!support! hey, luke we should go over to Browning's neighborhood and see if the people still have the solstice and take a few pictures. It would teach the non-believers a thing or two.

this joke is getting old, you don't have to believe me about the Continental GT's. I wouldn't make up something as random/wierd as this.

"once the gas drops again"?

good luck on that one

What can I say? I was bored.

There have been busts and booms in the sportscar market as long as I can remember, and unfortunately I think were heading for a bust, not because of loss of interest, but because of saturation...everyone who wants one has one in his price range...

and we will see the familiar withdrawl from our market by the japanise...then in 5 years time we will get a new batch of sportscars and everyone will be hapopy again

the only one i can honestly see passing the test of time is the RX-8, and that is because of that cool door thingy

I hope that the FirePower does well

Sounds good. I'll bring the camera. Call me.

Yes moe
Go take some pictures
Then we will believe you

Until then I still take everything you say as a huge load of BULL SHIT

actually cyclone, theres a member on our forums (sc.net) who regularly sees cars before they are even realeased, his sighting include the;
Charger ,Z06, Solstice and anything new, he lives in detroit or something

so I wouldnt be surprised if moe isnt lying

I see Volkswagens and Audi's that aren't released yet. (At least not in the states) Back in February, I saw an A3. The other pretty cool one was when I was watching that VW test facility in Tampa, as soon as I got there, there was a new passat driving in and the gate was closing. I just wish I had gotten there about 5 minutes sooner, cuz I would have had my camera out.